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Billing
 Criminal Solicitor Dot Net»Billing
Subject Topic: New CDS6 from July (vat changes) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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sadlerswells
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Joined: 08 January 2008
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Posts: 219
Posted: 04 July 2008 at 14:29 | IP Logged Quote sadlerswells

CDS news

Important changes to claims for criminal cases from 1 July

04 July 2008

VAT and cost of travel explained

From 1 July 2008 we’ve made two important changes to the way that providers claim for criminal cases.

VAT

To bring crime in line with civil reporting, and to allow for cases and firms not eligible for VAT, from the July submission onwards (i.e. claimed during early August) all figures included on your CDS6 (whether online, bulk-load or paper submission) should be reported exclusive of VAT. 

Each line will then include a new VAT indicator field where the firm can indicate (by entering ‘Y’ or ‘N’) whether or not they're eligible to claim VAT and if the case in question attracts VAT.

Where appropriate we’ll add VAT to the value of the claim. There's also a second extra field where the value of VAT being claimed on disbursements can be stipulated (allowing flexibility for the fact that not all disbursements attract VAT).

A revised version of the CDS6 form is under CDS Forms. You should use the new CDS6 (version 7 July 2008) for all cases completed from 1 July 2008.

Claims for non-standard fee work aren't affected, as the CDS7 claim form already allows for this breakdown.

Cost of travel

In a further change to crime reporting, from 14 July 2008 (when the Unified Contract (Crime) July 2008 becomes effective) there will be no contractual requirement to report the cost of travel for police station fixed fee or magistrates’ court standard fee claims. The requirement to report the cost of waiting remains.

Where you're claiming an exceptional case fee for police station work, however, you may still include these costs in your calculation to determine whether the relevant threshold is exceeded.

Important note – If you’re submitting your CDS6 through the bulkload or online you need to enter £0 in the appropriate field to prevent the line being rejected by our system.

Further information

For further information regarding either of the above changes, please see the revised CDS6 guidance document under CDS Forms or contact your Account Manager.

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Kelly S. A.
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Posted: 04 July 2008 at 14:49 | IP Logged Quote Kelly S. A.

What a mess
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csrcsrcsr
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Joined: 22 June 2008
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Posted: 05 July 2008 at 06:10 | IP Logged Quote csrcsrcsr

Once again they are playing "catchup" and leaving things to the last minute
 
In this case "they" are probably not LSC or CDS but now the governing "overseers" from The Treasury (to get as much tax back as possible or to reduce expense to the legal aid budget or to improve data reporting so they can do the same again)
 
The problem with all of this "red tape" is that there is very little "joined up" thinking and a constant desire (as in this case) to promote standardisation across the LSC (hence the so called unification process) and the need to control
 
While all the above may be appropriate over time, do you not think that the time for implementing changes should be in a cohesive and properly organised manner with appropriate advance warning and actual "connection" with any IT system which records these data elements?
 
 What is the betting there will be more and ever more incremental changes over time?
 
Guess whether there will be a cohesive attempt to bring in all changes harmoniously?
 
Guess who pays for this red tape and guess how many depts are involved at CLS and elsewhere doing their own thing, managing their own processes for their own purposes and with the result any changes come out as "messy"?
 
Now, they have done it to the Health Service, they have done it to the Education Service, they have done it to the Public Transport Services, they are doing it to the Armed Services and they are now doing it to the legal system.
 
It is a co-ordinated non cohesive non appropriately managed tinkering with a system where the burden will always fall on those who are providing the service (us) and where the morale of the service they pretend to be managing is ever decreasing
 
And they will advance the case and blow their own trumpet that this is all in the interests of better management (i.e. their own). But where is the cost? As usual at the coal face. They will end up with a broken down system which eventually opts not to co-operate and which will finally seize up - not their fault of course!
 
Would this type of change happen in a private company trying its best to manage its business in the most efficient way for the benefit of its shareholders (the tax payers in our case) and their customers (the clients in our case) so as to provide the best service to each part of their organisation ?
 
Morale in all organisations is important and change when it happens has to be very carefully and comprehensively managed! When will they learn?
 
It is sometimes not only the big things which start counter responses, but the small things when the number of small events become numerous. Is this one of those small things and how many small things pile up until they become a significant big thing!
 
Have the LSC ever published or given indications how their structures work, how many people are involved, what they actually do, and how they actively manage their purpose?
 
Apart that is from the general proposition - all things must be done within the Budget given; which means they have to make changes (or actually pass expense incurred to other parts of the system) so that a saving is apparently saved (when elsewhere it adds to other dept budgets!
 
Am I the only one who sees what is happening? Does any central dept ever look beyond its own boundaries at the impact elsewhere. Do they have an "impact policy"? If so, how does it work, and is it published somewhere? Has the Law Society been asked to assess impact of changes?
 
Does it strike you as a "planned cohesive event" if we are now being asked to enter a 0 into an IT form at all appropriate places because the information is not needed and if you do not do it the whole form for claiming expenses is rejected?
 
Did they not invite the IT dept what the impact of their change would be on the IT data collection they use?
 
If not, why not!
 
If they did what was the answer (bet you I can guess!   it would cost money to change the forms (this with a centralised system!!!) -   so let us make use of the hundreds of people each month to fill in 0s "where appropriate" and save us the money - hang the time and cost to the users, we do not pay them for filling in the form! - That's a "win" situation for them)
 
I do not complain about the need to reduce cost nor to improve quality nor (as it may seem) to I attack the often dedicated and hard worked individuals at the LSC who are trying to accomplish the higher imperatives given to them, but is it not the case that the system is not working properly
 
This is not just a moan! It is a call/desire to seek appropriate change appropriately implemented. It is for those who come after that we must fight today
 
An  old hand
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sadlerswells
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Posted: 05 July 2008 at 08:59 | IP Logged Quote sadlerswells

I am finding it very difficult to keep abreast of the billing changes in recent years.
Enough is enough. No more changes for at least 3 years.Please.
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littlewaster
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Posted: 07 July 2008 at 04:55 | IP Logged Quote littlewaster

Perhaps the best example of corporate autism yet.
These changes have been notified after inputting July submisions onto an obsolete Bulkload format which will be replaced on the 21st July.
My time is wasted, work piles up and frustration mounts.
 
 
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cannonred525
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Posted: 21 July 2008 at 12:03 | IP Logged Quote cannonred525

I do my work at the moment on a spreadsheet excel and just copy and paste into the bulk load spreadsheet.
They do not like the look of it but i can do the work much more quickly without pulldown menus and incorrrect letters being typed. I can also leave out info until i have checked it ( incorrect ufn for eg).  I just make sure all the data is in the correct order.
 
I also send it on their secure server and i send the backup and the actual submission.  xls and csv
 
We cannot get a statement of account from the lsc because of all their problems. Our accountant needs this for the end of years accounts.
 
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csrcsrcsr
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Posted: 21 July 2008 at 13:03 | IP Logged Quote csrcsrcsr

Hooray!
 
Someone else actually publicises that they work in and know how to do all the CDS forms (I assume) in Excel
 
The program is very capable of recording all the information that LSC want (and more!) and can do all the cross checking, the subtotalling and the data statistical things you want to know about!
 
Why LSC think that getting people to input by drop downs and web based data capture is a "good idea" is beyond me!
 
Excel is a good method of data capture where there are simple elements to be input. More importantly, LSC and their wonderful progammers can work with it in both Excel and CSV and (I would like to think!) in XML format.
 
I.E. Every firm in the land has a very simple template (Excel) in which all the data can be properly captured, and sent to LSC without any complex operations and LSC has (or should have) methods of examing the data submitted for errors in commission (that would have sorted out all their prior problems in the last disaster of trying to data capture things from different Suppliers!) and can import into whatever structure they may wish
 
Additionally, they could if only they bothered to try, enable all the data to be simply uploaded to a secure section of any website they want to name AND enable the Supplier to see EXACTLY what information has been input over time while the LSC simply extract what they want.
 
More importantly, if they wanted to change anything all they have to do is update the appropriate template and ask the Suppliers to use the new template for inputting and uploading - no more time trying to play with the Web or broadband or copying from paper to accounts and then to a Web input device.
 
There are hundreds (no - thousands!) of programmers out there (and probably even more thousands of amateurs) who could design the data capture using programs the Suppliers already know (or at least Work Experience people know). Why LSC makes life more complex than it is - is a different subjectt - the same reason why the so called "Manual" they print is 3 volumes and over 2000 pages (a guess) when it could be written in probability in less than one tenth the volume and one tenth simpler!
 
Sorry - just a bit of a rant because like institutions, Government, local authorities, the police - ANY large organisation, they make life much much more difficult than it need be because they do not UNDERSTAND how real life works. They create work and yet more work for no other purpose than they have time and are paid to do it instead of just thinking for a moment that the LESS one is required to do or read, the SIMPLER life becomes and (the whole purpose!) the more EFFICIENT it can become
 
Canute tried to stop the waves coming in. LSC is trying to do the same by creating something repeatedly that is already quite good solely because THEY do not understand what works and they do not TRY to understand and get to grips with what works. They want to redesigan the wheel all the time - forgetting that we are already all travelling on wheels.
 
Where is the cold flanel! How did I get to be worked up like that!
 
An old hand
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cannonred525
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Posted: 22 July 2008 at 11:57 | IP Logged Quote cannonred525

What about a submission if there is a vatable and non-vatable disb to be claimed on the same case (line) on the cds6/excel. Do we use the vat indicator or not or do we enter a second line just for the disb non vatable.
 
 
 
Well done the LSC. 
 
 
All lawyers and employees should be made to wear neon vests and do community service as we will be regarded as jobseekers very soon.
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sadlerswells
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Posted: 12 August 2008 at 04:43 | IP Logged Quote sadlerswells

I  submitted my CDS6 for July on 1st aug  via csv file attached to an email. They acknowledged receipt of my email by return. Do you get a further email confirming data is correct? The reason I ask is that I cannot post the bills until I finalise the return which I do not want to do unless everything is correct
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Ginger
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Posted: 12 August 2008 at 04:55 | IP Logged Quote Ginger

I've never understood why legal aid is subject to VAT anyway. Can anyone enlighten me?


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