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Magistrates Courts
 Criminal Solicitor Dot NetMagistrates Courts
Subject Topic: CRM2 Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Scott
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Posted: 23 July 2013 at 09:41 | IP Logged Quote Scott

Attended police station for breach of bail condition interview -
specific request by Custody Sergeant.

File already open for client in relation to existing matter (with
CRM 2 signed).

Forgot to get another CRM2 signed - is it required (given
CRM2 signed in relation to substantive offence).

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Superted
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Posted: 23 July 2013 at 12:55 | IP Logged Quote Superted

What on earth is a CRM2?

Edited by Superted on 24 July 2013 at 12:45


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Harvey Fox
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Posted: 24 July 2013 at 05:46 | IP Logged Quote Harvey Fox

CRM2 or the Client's signature on any form is not required to
claim a police station fee. It is a form to assess eligibility to
claim for means-tested advice and assistance whereas Police
Station advice is not means-tested. The only fees dependent
on a signed CRM2 are likely to relate to means-tested non-
Police interviews (DWP/Local Authority) or appeal classes of
work.

Breach of bail interview will be post-charge advice so hourly
rates rather than fixed fee. You can claim if you attended
reasonably but the Police cancelled the interview.

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Harvey Fox
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Tabby
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Posted: 25 July 2013 at 08:02 | IP Logged Quote Tabby

Scott
Is the Breach pre or post charge ?
If it's pre -isn't it rolled into the P/Stn fixed Fee and post it's hourly
rates as Harvey F says
Does anyone use a CRM2 anymore other than for DWP/Local Authy
type interviews ?
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Harvey Fox
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Posted: 25 July 2013 at 08:16 | IP Logged Quote Harvey Fox

Some Police Station Agencies seem to get Clients to sign them because
of the declaration that they have not been represented previously. I bin
them as they are actually signing a declaration of their income as
specified on CRM1, which has not been completed at all by these
agencies.


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Richie
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Posted: 28 July 2013 at 12:38 | IP Logged Quote Richie

1 & 2's needed on all files, you would fail an LSC and SQM
audit for not having them, admittedly most of ours are blank
where the client hasn't signed it or the Police Station Lawyer
has forgot and put a blank one in the file! But one on the file
needed nevertheless.

Scott - I am confused however that they would hold a breach
of bail condition interview, as its not an offence. Either they
have the evidence of breach and arrest or they don't. But I
can see why in some cases they might want formal evidence
of a breach - when a tag breaks etc.

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Harvey Fox
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Posted: 28 July 2013 at 13:26 | IP Logged Quote Harvey Fox

There's a requirement to have the basic information on the
front of the CRM1 recorded on each file for audit purposes
- Client's name, UFN, date of birth, address, etc. Some
firms use the CRM1 for this purpose but any file opening
form will suffice as long as it is clearly set out. The financial
information on most of the CRM1 does not require
recording unless you are making a claim for means-tested
advice and assistance. I can not conceive of any reason to
have a CRM2 on every file for audit or any other purposes.
Really mystified at what purpose an unsigned CRM2 could
serve. It exists for the Client to certify the correctness of
the financial information on the CRM1 to trigger a claim for
means-tested advice and assistance.

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Richie
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Posted: 28 July 2013 at 13:48 | IP Logged Quote Richie

Harvey I know - agree fully, a pointless form. We jumped
through the hoops last week after being told that we must
have them for an SQM audit. By the SQM auditor.

Would be great if other firms aren't using them, as it would
save us a load of photocopying of what is an pointless form,
just for the sake of it.



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Kelly S. A.2
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Posted: 28 July 2013 at 14:37 | IP Logged Quote Kelly S. A.2

Richie - I think your SQM auditor is badly wrong. CRim 2
replaces CDS2 I think - it is therefore ONLY needed for a
means tested situation. It is not needed for every file and
indeed it would be dangerous to have one on every file
because some lunatic will come along from LAA and argue
that you were intending to claim a means tested fee when
you shouldn't and the evidence for that is that you have filled
out the CRIM 2.
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Harvey Fox
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Posted: 28 July 2013 at 14:46 | IP Logged Quote Harvey Fox

I'm hoping that Richie's auditor was misunderstood and was
only requiring the UFN etc to be clearly recorded on file. CRM1
is indeed the recommended manner of doing so but there are
alternative means that suffice just as well. Flummoxed as to
how they could possibly want to see CRM2 and mirror Kelly's
concerns.

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