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Refusal to provide info once D/P has left

Fri, 04 Jul 2008 04:44:14 GMT

PACE code C states that a D/P or their legal rep can request a full copy of the custody reocrd after leaving the station . Does this apply to disposal details?

When a D/P is still at the station (eg for CPS advice) my local force often refuses to provide info on disposal (bail or charge details) saying that I should get them from the OIC or the D/P themselves.

I always give the OIC my card and ask them to leave a voicemail or an email covering this.

However I am forever calling force enquiries who send the OIC a msg and I wait and wait for details.

Is there a rule in the code of practice (or elsewhere) requiring custody to let me know when the d/p has left?

PS. alcoholic or addicted homeless D/Ps are hard to track down - esp when the boys in blue have seized their phone...

Where Is Ron Barker

Thu, 03 Jul 2008 12:46:32 GMT

I am seeing a lot of posts on here today that Ron would have fielded by now. Seems a bit empty without his long and detailed answers to everything. Does anyone know him well enough to know if this is pause for breath and calm reflection or is he gone, gone never coming back?

Expert on dangerousness

Thu, 03 Jul 2008 11:35:44 GMT

Does anyone know, or has anyone used, an expert who can give an independent view on this question for sentence?

Our Psychiatrist can assist but, if one exists, a further report may assist.

Views or recommendations welcome.

Thanks

accepting money from clients

Wed, 02 Jul 2008 12:25:52 GMT

As I was leaving the Police station today a client shook my hand and put £10 in it before literally just running off across a road as I was protesting.

I know we are not supposed to accept money etc – the ethics helpline said I should ask the partnersmy thoughts were to donate it to charity and put a note on the file. either that or return it to him ASAP or get his agreement for charity dontation.

It is kind of complicated as the client has psychosis and was late for his medication so I wanted to be beyond reproach.

this has got really copmlicated now as it appears that the money may qualify as client monies so has to be banked!

anyone got any views?

pervert?

Thu, 01 Jul 2008 11:22:13 GMT

hi all, just heard about an interesting story at local mags ct. def found ng after trial re theft case. def relied on 2 w's (b-friend and mum) to support his account.

police now arrested - some month or so later - the b-friend on susp of pervert as they (police) hv knowledge that the b-friend and mum all gave statements to defence lawyer in the presence of the sol and clt at sol's office..

an unusual case - just wondering if anyone anyone else has come across this sort of thing??

Firearms forensic expert

Thu, 01 Jul 2008 05:44:28 GMT

Can anyone reccomend a good firearms forensic expert ?

June 2008 CPD Questions

Mon, 30 Jun 2008 02:14:07 GMT

The June 2008 CPD questions are now available.

To take part in the free Criminal Solicitor Dot Net CPD scheme follow this link.

Deaf client

Fri, 27 Jun 2008 11:33:00 GMT

simply a matetr of curiosity - I was in custody in Charing X the other day and the Sgt was talking about a chap she had just booked in to the OIC who had just been allocated. they were debating what to do since the detainee was deaf and did not sign so they could not use a sign language interpreter.

How on earth would he be interviewed? my thuoghts were that it woudl have to be contemporaneous and maybe videoed?

Bad Character In Interview

Fri, 27 Jun 2008 04:42:33 GMT

Opinions, course taken, examples and preferably citations wanted!

1. Bad character in interview. i.e.: Whether this is allowed in COP definition of interview (unless i missed the memo (thats all that is needed now to change PACE isn't it!) that changed the definition of an interview), convictions disclosed/relevant etc etc.

2. Ever answer or no comment these questions? eg: Male arrested assault wife, he denies this. Has previous for assault wife a year ago ( for arguments sake, anything from caution to life!). Denies current alleg in i/v and is questioned regarding previous and makes no comment. At trial says it was 6 of 1, half dozen of the other (Domestic!) regarding Caution and he just wanted to get out of there so accepted caution etc. Forgetting the possible Abuse arguments(can we have officers EAB's, i/v tapes, notes etc from previous).

For what its worth I make reps that not appropriate/relevant at this stage (bad char is for Court, no appl made and therefore not admissable evi (limited diclosure (only have PNC, no further details so how can i advise my client?)).

I am not aware of case law etc. that inferences can be drawn from no commenting bad character, but 'THE CPS' have advised Ofiicers this is so! Since when have the CPS had all this power, they say it is so and it is! so!

If the Ofiicer wants to continue i ask for private cons. and for client to confirm. Every client to date has said that they do not want to answer questions about previous, even them that deny previous!

I then advise client of his right to refuse rape recorded i/v and that police can manuscript i/v in cell (never happened). Some decide to do this and others want to continue to no comment and seem proud when pages are put to them (Lord Chief Asbo of ..... Estate!)

What if any inferences could be drawn from this?

Fixed Fee Opinion Update

Fri, 27 Jun 2008 01:07:12 GMT

I have not posted for a good while, mainly because when i look everything i've wanted to post on has been said, from all the angles! That is a good thing and i am very grateful for most posts (You know who you are!), some use it to stir and wind up (You know who you are and you should be ashamed!)

Anyway regarding fixed fees, i have found that it was very quiet at first (for what its worth i think this was mainly the DSCC (as everyone, both freelance and full time i spoke to was quiet) and firms clamping down (making efforts to use full time).

When i say it was quiet my income was only down 10%, but i would estimate i worked at least 30% less hours (see below though!).

I discussed this with officers and especially Custody Sergeants* and made the point that if i am left waiting for an hour or so without reason and another call comes through for me that is ready and i leave to deal with that and they would have to wait till i was finished. The standard reply was/is, we will refer it back to duty and i would have to point out that not only is the Government screwing them, they are screwing us and that the next brief will not get fee and DSCC will not refer again anyway (its not about the person in the nick, its about the money).

*They are the Men and Women with 3 stripes on their shoulder and authority that those of you that work outside the Met may remember, come on you must remember, they book people in, bail them, authorise things etc etc

At this point i have to say that the vast majority of Police have been excellent (yes, excellent) in this regard, efficient, informative and helpful (with expediting matters, not everything so calm down Ofiicers!).

In the last 2 months work has picked up and my income is about 10% up and i work similar hours to hourly rates. But tis comes with a downside, i am covering alot more cases and they are mainly unsocial hours and some are miles away! I find this more stressful and this is the experience of most reps that i have spoken to.

Not to moan though, after all the doom and gloom (Guilty!) i am glad to be able to (just about, fuel, interest rates etc, should of gone into Banking Damn!) earn a living! I sincerely hope everyone else is the same, some of the rates and fees firms pay are worrying.

As a little thank you to every one i would like to recommend a website that is free and gives great advice in an area that most of us suffer from: Parking Tickets (but i was in Court, the Custody Suite.........)!

The site is pepipoo.com - If i am not supposed to name a site, please can administrator remove this, thanks.

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Interview away from police station

Thu, 26 Jun 2008 04:45:32 GMT

If a person is suspected for an offence under what circumstances can they be interviewed away from a police station?

If police suspect an offence and circumstances satisfy the necessity criteria, they must (?) be arrested.

If they are arrested - they must only be i/v'd at a designated police station (CODE C 11.1), altho certain "urgent" exceptions can apply until those exceptions are dealt with (eg harm to a person, recovery of property...).

If necessity criteria are not satisfied - can they still be questioned under caution away from designated police station?

Example - juvenile suspected of "minor" theft, gives name, comes back no trace on PNC, police decide to i/v him at home address with contemp notes, with a view to a reprimand (to be given later at a "caution clinic")...Lawful?

Non payment of agents

Thu, 24 Jun 2008 07:02:27 GMT

Hi, can anyone help. I read somewhere on the LSC site that if a solicitor instructs an agent to attend a police station and fails to pay him the agent can apply direct to the LSC for payment. Have tried to find this passage again without success. Not a very user friendly site. Thanks.

cautions and employment

Mon, 23 Jun 2008 13:22:04 GMT

almost 2 weeks ago i got into a fight with my sister,,, resulting in both of us with black eyes, by the time the police came it was over so they didnt arrest us. my sister punched me first so i retaliated and punched her back, although when they came she told them it was me who hit her first. so we both had to be interviewed, i admitted to the police that i hit her but only after she hit me first. because i admitted to hitting her also, they are giving me a caution for affray. i am really worried as i started a new job in march and dont come out of my probabtion period until september. i have explained to my manager what happened (and even went into work not being able to open my right eye) and have told her that i will be receiving the caution, but am just wondering if they could sack me over this? i have never been in any trouble before and this will be the only thing on my record. i have explained to my boss this and she said she simply wont tell our human resources dept. i work in customer services but not with vulnerable people. could anyone tell me how long this will be on my record or is it permanent?

i dont want to refuse the caution as i did hit her back but it was only self defense, and if it goes to court i will say the same, but i dont want it to go to court and me get in more trouble.
GEMMALOU39623.4307523148

Identification Procedure Precluding the a

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 18:35:36 GMT

Identification Procedure Precluding the attendance of Defence Solicitors during witness viewing

I have recently been acting for a young man arrested on suspicion of murder along with 5 others. Following 94 ½ hours in custody all 6 men were released on bail to return back at a later date. A couple of days ago, I received a call from the ID Officers at a station in West Yorkshire, informing me that witness viewing in respect of my client would take place the following day, but my attendance is precluded on authority of the Chief Super of HMET and a senior Prosecutor. The same applied to the other solicitors. Whereas I found this extremely bizarre, I made a number of attempts to contact the Chief Super and the senior prosecutor but to no avail. I resorted to a strongly worded letter to the Chief Constable and Chief Crown Prosecutor, following which the Senior Prosecutor contacted me informing that it was joint decision of the Police and CPS to preclude the solicitors. I repeatedly asked for the relevant authority, on which they rely to exclude solicitors, and the idiot had no answer. After going in circles for about 20 minutes I hung up. The only authority that I was given was R. v. Taylor [1995] Crim.L.R. 253 and Para 9 of Code D PACE Procedures. Neither of them makes any reference to this issue!! Although my firm is contemplating JR, I wonder if any one can suggest anything else. This is most certainly a first for me. The viewings took place at the Police station and not homes of the witnesses. Any comments / ideas would be MUCH APPRECIATED.

Thanks - Imran

Varying conditional police bail at court

Thu, 17 Jun 2008 12:46:04 GMT

Client bailed by police pre charge still at investigation stage. Complainant is child yet to do ABE. I believe I can apply to a court to vary bail. Anyone know the procedure and how it is funded?